I am tired.
So, really, I believe that this country needs to get its epistemological roots back. There are people upon people upon people who get a free education and a home for the first eighteen years of their lives, and these people hate school.
I’m not saying that every person hates school, but that people need to learn that their education, while it may not be extremely important to them, expands the brain. It helps them to contemplate things which may be of a help to them; and even gives them better employment opportunities. So, why wouldn’t people just learn for the crapping of it, since they have to anyway? Boring stuff, maybe?
Hmmm… Interesting thought, ZenMaintenance. Very interesting, and I have to say that that is a problem among some.
So, let’s address another point: To those of you who have read the Aldous Huxley novel, Brave New World. I remember, form this novel, a specific point, in which the main characters are meeting with the World Controller, Mustafa Mond. In this meeting, the characters are told that modern humans are treated to have a predetermined intelligence for one reason: That if everybody were geniuses (Paraphrased, obviously), then there would be disaster.
I do not agree with this. I believe there would be arguments, but not disaster. Especially not if people were reasonable and logical enough to use the Socratic Method or to listen to each other reasonably, like humans begins should.
Ahhhhhhhhh……. Socrates. I knew nothing about him until last summer, when I was reading the nonfiction book Zen And The Art Of Motorcycle Maintenance, by Robert M. Pirsig. He told us (The readers) that nobody had really tested the formerly accepted ideas of society and religion/metaphysical ideas before the Sophists. He said that these people were, basically, the first organized school of thought. Then, the Socratic and post-Socratic philosophers began to use thought. I really think that the most important influence on our government should be considered Socrates, not John Locke. Simply because of the Declaration of Independence. It states that we are all created equal, and he government is there to provide for use the freedoms we need and want, and that if the government becomes destructive to the aforesaid means, that we are to abolish it and start again. Socrates demonstrated this tenfold; he tried to have every person believe in equality, and, when persecuted for his beliefs, kept his stance, doing everything he could to change the government so that it wasn’t destructive to these means, and, when he failed, he accepted death. Although it is true that because he didn’t have a ridiculously large following, he wasn’t able to do a very large amount of persuasion, and he, being a peace monger, would not want to try and revolt.
Also by way of argument comes a piece of literature known as Catch 22, written by Joseph Heller. It’s a good book, according to most people, but some people don’t understand the humor, don’t like the humor, etc. I think people have to be able to understand the book more to be able to really enjoy it. The book, obviously anti war, was truly about the government’s conquest into different people, and the craziness of the subordination of some of those people, and the beliefs of those who, although they are not truly crazy, are labeled crazy by the government and treated as such. It uses humor (a lot of it pretty dark) in order to show the ridiculousness of the System. And, although it becomes gravely serious at different points, it really holds true to its comedy almost the entire time. But the reason it uses comedy is that the author is writing it so that he expresses the craziness not only in its characters and its form of logic, but also in the writing. The insanity of the whole situation is shown simply through the use of a cut storyline, jumping back and forth, with no real logical order to follow, until the storyline has been pieced together.
Another interesting work of political fiction is Orwell’s 1984. Very good. It’s a classic, well known piece about an oppressive government. It was written in 1948, and uses a very closed in mood and personality to achieve its main message: The impossibility of truly functioning in such a government. The governmental entity, known simply as Big Brother, is not even truly existing within the story. We never learn if he’s real. It’s a pretty good concept, though, the idea of only hearing the story through one point of view.
Solipsism- that’s one of the philosophies mentioned when the government is being explained. It is the idea that nothing exists outside the mind of every person. And it’s a very personal idea; if I can’t see you, you do not exist at the moment. This is close to subjective philosophy. It has the same basic idea, except that it was never developed metaphysically. It’s also close to existentialism; the study of the existence of man and his place within his universe. Most existentialists would argue that man is in charge of his own destiny and that the only thing he is sure to do on earth is to exist; whether it be one day or three hundred years. A good book on this is L’Etranger (The Stranger in English), about a man who commits a pointless murder and is condemned to death. The man believes throughout the novel that there is no force bringing humans together, and that it is absurd to even believe that. This branches out into absurdism; the very belief described in the last sentence through the idea of existentialism.
Another philosophy-Objectivism-was brought out through Ayn Rand’s novel, The Fountainhead. It shows the idea that things exist outside of the realm of thought.
Metaphysics. Can’t get enough.
So, if you were to ask me, people should remain to follow school, if only epistemologically, for the sake of learning,, through earlier years. I think that people should contemplate the metaphysics that they are aware of, in order to breach their understanding of the relam outside our own.
~ZM~
Change/Improvement, Ethics/Morality, Metaphysics/Religion, Politics/Economy, Satire/Criticism, Uncategorized
Themocracy
Here’s the deal ~ZM~ if everyone was you or me or anyone else it would be boring and very bad. Yes it is sad that we will always need someone to drop out of high school to pump gas for us. Hey it is a crappy thing but, be happy that you can know they made that choice for themselves. It would be a disaster if we were all geniuses (sp) Because how many essteemed harvard deans also have part time jobs as car salesmen not many. Simply put we need stupid people mediocre people and smart ones like you. Yeah everyone should learn as much as needed but the story that comes to mind is one of a teacher I knew; He was working his way through college for rederict I belive but regardless he also pumped gas. Every day I am told he drove to work listening to “rage against the machine” and one song in paticular that declared the evils of oil companys. And in this fashion every day prior to pumping gas he got all worked up and pissed of at oil companys. It made as he described “The job absolutley miserable” Now if he had to pump gas all his life why should he know how evil the oil companys were if he simply has no choice. Why should he be miserable if all it accomplishes is misery that is what thye meant in BNW. Make people happy where they ‘have’ to be in life. It would be cruel to give everyone the best education in the world then let them pump gas or mine coal. Let them make the stupid decision to miss out on that great education don’t tourture them or as in BNW deprive them. That is what those people who fail to appreciate education are there for!
~Tran22
(I hope you don’t mind, I tapped your line-breaks just a little to make the post more readable.)
That’s alright, Admin. I’m usually pretty bad with that type of thing.
Now, Tran (Just wondering, is it supposed to be “Tran” or “Tee-Ran”?), I seem to have been misunderstood. I was not suggesting that all people are exactly the same, or even that they all should become Harvard professors, or the like. What I am saying is simple. We should try and educate ourselves. Mathematics and literature, especially. Every other subject of study branches off of these two; this type of education, at least until about middle school, would give assistance on such things and mechanic operation and the creation of instruction manuals.
You also have to remember three things: That, first of all, Huxley was stating that we should learn to accept our place in life, not that everyone should be in love with what they do.
Secondly, there will always be high end jobs and low end jobs. If someone couldn’t get a high end job, even they were educated, then the rest would eventually fill up.
Thirdly, even the greatest thinkers aren’t all in high positions of income or power. There are many cases in which this type of lifestyle has even been rejected; not all educated people chase after high ends.
~ZM~
I cannot wait to do this, but I’m always so confoundedly busy.
Well, I didn’t read this.. And I only read the first few lines of Tran22’s post, but in most states.. Oregon and one other being the only exceptions.. People pump their own gas. Shocking, but that’s the way it is.
Ok Ok…… So the point I was making was There are shitty jobs (take your pick of the ones featured on dirty jobs not just gas pumping). People must do those jobs. If that person knows they are just as smart as the guy on wall-street then that will breed contempt. Ie. “why should he live the good life if I am just as capable as he is at doing his job while I clean sewers.” As it is those people realize they do the job they do because they are not capable of doign that other job. So if we follow your plan then the contempt will breed and that is what destroys nations and goverments. Huxley meant we should make people as happy with what they have to do as possible not that people have to except it that the goverment helps them except it. I do agree with your main Idea that it is shitty these people don’t appreciate there education but there loss
First off, Brave new World was not about accepting your place. It was a dystopia. It was a dysfunctional utopia designed to prove to the readers either an impossibility or a negative outcome sprouting from the same seed as contempt. It showed that the government is not there to force things on the people and that the people should fight back. It was, basically, a satire aimed at making fun of the people who run the show and the things hey force upon you and the things we become content with.
Secondly, I do not believe you are looking into this deeply enough. It is important to realize, firstly, that there is already a huge stem of contempt between the working classes and the rich classes, sprouting from two things: Unequal opportunity and unequal value. If we were to educate everyone, it would relieve the contempt sprouting from unequal opportunity, at least as much as it can possibly be, and, more importantly, would help to increase the value of those who feel contempt because they believe there is an unequal value between them and their societal or economical superiors.
If the masses were more well educated, it would also allow them to realize certain things about their government: That we are given the duty, as a people, to abolish an unjust government, or to fix it (if this is possible), as long as this is not caused by malicious intent or trivial losses.
If a people were to be educated more in all around subjects, then it would help the masses to discern certain ideas from certain writings; it would allow them to tell whether they are being cheated by their government and allow them to look more toward the future of political America. The people would look around and see an unjust system, if there was one, and try and abolish the system that is unjust.
Moreover, I think that there is something you seem to be referencing from brave new World. the World Controller states, very briefly, that they had tried to put a group of Alphas on an island together and had sought to find what would happen. Soon, the people went through several wars and rebellions and eventually wanted to have a system initiated. This points to your belief, that people should not all be educated to the same point.
But if we analyze this in context, instead of out of context, we will see that it points to an entirely different conclusion: That the Alphas in that novel, while still the highest people in terms of education, were bred from the same seed, as were nearly all people, and thus had a very small amount of individuality. So, Aldous Huxley was really stating that when one attempts to understand the entirety of human society through mathematical or scientific methods, it doesn’t work, because there are too many individuals who confound any psychological state or ideal and are not true to scientific method or analysis.
People are always going to show some contempt at their place in organized society; this is one of the more common ailments in any sort of freedom. But what we really need to look at is how we can make it better and relieve the contempt, through contemplation and ideals. A person will find out that in a no win situation, the best way is to resign yourself to your fate, accept it and move on; this being an imperfect world, things are never balanced in the way they ought to be. In Catch 22, Joseph Yossarian knew he was in a no win situation until the end, when he found his escape route and left the situation unanswered.
If people are educated properly for a time long enough, and accept this education, then here is one thing which will happen: People will improve their minds and their lives. Any sensibly trained human being can sit when told or lie over for a treat, but the truly learned individual will know when to lie over and when to stop the hand from feeding it because the hand is dirty. People will recognize the evil in the world and attempt to stop it; they will try and find logical ways to escape the evil without causing any real damage to anyone.